Thursday, September 15, 2011

Actt 2 Crucible Discussion Thread

Today we are going to have a discussion thread based on Act 2 of The Crucible. I want you to respond to others, make comments, using textual support and I always want you to end with a question-intepretative or critical. I do not want one word responses; I expect formal writing and intelligent thought showing your discerning observations and analysis. Please keep in mind the ideological statements and central questions as a means of helping you analyze further. To start:

How far reaching has this epidemic become? Everyone should start here with comments and then take the thread where it will...

150 comments:

  1. The epidemic has reached a new high in Salem, but in all reality none but Procter see it as it really is. An Epidemic. The feeling that i get from the accusers is that they more than anyone have been caught up in the hysteria. Evolving from personal gain to drunk with the power of credulity. When everyone will believe you it can go to your head, and for the girls of Salem it has started an epidemic that will cause the deaths of many

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  2. The epidemic of fear and uncertainty seems to have engulfed the whole town and is spreading to the surrounding farms like the Proctors'. When will the hysteria burn itself out, and when will things go back to normal?

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  3. The epidemic has reached the whole town of Salem, and it seems like every woman in town is starting to be convicted. Is it right that the people who admit to a crime don't die?

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  4. I believe that the epidemic is going to far. People are starting to blame events from years ago on people because they now have an excuse. When people say something weird is going on, do more people say they too believe in this? Why?

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  5. The epidemic has reached so far that is seems no one is safe from suspicion. At one point 39 people were accused and the officer had a warrant for 16 more arrests that night. It is a full on plague at this point. No one is safe from pointing fingers. Do you think in the novel there will come a point when they start to blame men as well for making deals with the devil?

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  6. Obviously, lies are at the heart of the witch hunt and the truth must be exposed soon. Would you risk losing your reputation for the good of the whole? How do you see Reverend Hale changing in this Act?

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  7. This epidemic has already gone to far for its own good. In act 2, more people are being dishonest and lying to save their own lives. One of the ideological statements stated, "People are generally good and honest." After reading act 2, I realize that this is not true. Most people try to be good, but end up lying in order to preserve themselves. Elizabeth and John used to be happy together, but the recent events have created a tension between them because of dishonesty. Should Elizabeth have allowed Proctor to please her and forget about Abby? What would have changed?

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  8. When Giles tells Hale and the Proctors that his girls, Rebecca and Goody Nurse, have been taken by the warren, they seem so taken aback and surprised, but when they were told of the others' accused, such as Goody Good, they barely blinked and eye. Abby first accused outsiders of being witches, and it worked it's way into the town, unlike most things which work opposite of that. So Why do we put so much emphasis on social classes within society?

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  9. I feel like it has gone really far. To the point of too far. This is because it has affected everyone in this society in more ways than one. I believe this is shown by Elizabeth and Proctor and how their relationship is affected and how they begin to not share certain things with one another. Do you think they will ever be able to recover from this? How can they get to that point?

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  10. @ Garrett: WHat would it take to make the hysteria burn out? Do you think it will just take time?

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  11. Garrett- I think the hysteria will burn itself out and Salem will return to normal when the accused are hung or when Abby confesses that there was no witch craft at all. How long do you think it will be before one of these happens?

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  12. Jack- Do you think that people are blaming others to make sure they are safe from the growing epidemic?
    Everyone- I am seen a trend throughout the book that it is only girls as witches. Is that stereotypical or true?

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  13. I think this epidemic has spread to almost the whole town. It seems like everyone is accusing someone else in order to save themselves or get revenge.

    What do you guys think is Cheever's opinion? Do you think he believes in what he is doing or is he just doing his job? If you think he is just doing his job, is this beneficial to him? Do you think when there is conflict people try to avoid taking sides so that they are not an outcast?

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  14. Now the whole town has gotten involved with the trial. Isn't all the people tried for murder ironic considering they are all supposed to be Puritans?

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  15. @Garrett the epidemic will burn out when there is no more fuel in the fire, and with Abigail and he cronies diligently stoking and feeding that fire, it wont stop until they have nothing left to put in. Also, do you think it is conicidence that Procter,the best example of hipocrasy in Salem, would be the only one to see things as they are?

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  16. Jonathan, it is right that they shouldn't die, however they shouldn't be wrongly accused in the first place and therefore have to falsely admit to being a witch. Is there any way to stop hysteria as it begins to spread?

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  17. @GarretJ, I don't think things will ever go back to normal. People from the town are dying because of this incident and neighbors and turning against neighbors.

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  18. to Jonathan-think about it this way-people who repent will be forgiven for their sins, that's why they don't die-but are people admitting falsely? what does this say about their moral code and the religious implications of salvation?

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  19. I think this epidemic has gone very far. On page 72, Elizabeth Proctor is arrested on charges of witchcraft. This is a foreshadowing of what will come. In the beginning, specifically at the very last page of act one, Abigail implicates many people in witchcraft, but they are all considered outcasts. In act two, people of a higher standing are being accused. Even Rebecca Nurse is charged, and Miller details in the beginning of the play how much people respect her. Do people of a higher class expect to not be affected by the law, even if the charges against them are erroneous?

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  20. This epidemic is not only affecting the actions of those who choose to be involved with the trials, but it is now reaching toward innocent bystanders who are solely at the mercy of Abigail. The Proctors are probably the main targets that Abigail has been saving up for. She wants Proctor to be hers more than anything in the world and will do whatever it takes to get rid of Elizabeth.
    All while this is going on, John and Elizabeth are still bickering about John's affair. He expects her to forgive him and place the whole matter behind them. Elizabeth however is having a hard time with this.
    Does Elizabeth have to forgive Proctor? Or is closure a step that these two can skip?

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  21. Jared- But don't you think that if they hang some that they will just keep hanging others? And where is the stopping point?

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  22. This epidemic has become so far reaching that it is like a domino effect of women being accused. As soon as one person's name was mentioned, Abigail and Betty went off. It seems as if every women's name in the town has been mentioned. How come all of the women in town are going to court except for the original people who confessed that they were acquainted with the devil, Tituba, Abby and Betty?

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  23. @Class: In Salem, people are being prosecuted with out having any facts to back them up. Why do you think people are so quick to judge? Not only in that time, but also today.

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  24. Garret: I think the hysteria will leave once the town realizes their wrong doings, and I think that will happen once everyone is tried because the few people who realize how bad this is are being convicted.
    Class: Why don't the judges want evidence to prove witchcraft?

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  25. Garrett- How will the hysteria burn itself out? Do you think actions must be taken to shorten the process? Or is it out of one's control?

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  26. @Rheana C- I believe that when there is a rumor or a belief of something weird or unusual going on, many people tend to start to believe it or say that they believe it, even if they don't, just to fit in with the majority. A question to everyone- what do you think this says about the true morals or these "devoted" Christians? Are they not able to think for themselves and stand up for what they believe in just because of what everyone else is telling them?

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  27. Mrs. Comp, I think that Reverend Hale has stopped looking for facts to figure out what is going on and has switched to being more of a person looking to convict. How will his role as an agressor of sorts affect the way the convictions are accepted?

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  28. @ JonathanC- I understand why the court would say this, so witches won't be afraid to confess and come back to the Lord. But this also causes false confessions. If a person will most likely die if they don't admit to this crime, more will say they did it and suffer the lesser punishment. To what extent is it okay to lie to protect yourself and others life's?

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  29. Jonathon:
    Well, it may not be right that they don't die, when others who told the truth do, but in a society as fearful as the Puritan culture, they probably just want to find out who "the bad people" are to feel more secure, and also to act out the revenge and attention that it all started with. Is it right to hurt people for giving the "wrong" answer or having a different point of view?

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  30. Garret- I think that this hysteria will burn itself out once people actually start to realize what is happening. At the moment, I feel like no one really understands the severity of these situations. Some people are saying things like, "Oh yeah there will be a hanging in the morning." This probably seems a bit surreal to them and they will most likely begin to feel bad about what is happening as soon as events progress. How can people just sit by and watch these terrible things happening without intervening?

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  31. In the literal sense, the epidemic hasn't spread outside the town of Salem. The idea is staying confined in the village but is spreading rapidly throughout its population. With everyone being accused, defending themselves is nearly impossible. It is their word against someone else's. How valuable is the testimony of the person being accused?

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  32. Garrett and Hannah-I do not think it will take just one person for it stop, but more a group of individuals. Will this burn out peacefully or with a fight?

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  33. Amanda C: I think they haven't gone to court because they already admitted to "being close with the Devil" so they have already been "saved." What do you think they gain out of prosecuting all these women in their town?

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  34. JonathanC- It depends on the crime whether the people should die or not. I think that if there are people who are not admitting to the crime do die, than those who admit to the crime should die too. If someone who didn't confess to a murder was put to death, should we not put someone else to death if they admitted to murder? What do you think?

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  35. Comp- In this Act, it becomes evident that Hale feels a lot of guilt for his actions. I don't think he thought that the accusations would rise to the level they have. I feel he believed that he thought one maybe two woman would be a accused and so therefore he willingly helped. Then when it turned into a full fledged epidemic, he panicked and just continued doing what he has been doing. This leads us to the question, if you know what you are doing is wrong once you are already involved, should you back out or should you continue on in order to save your reputation.

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  36. Whitney - I love your question. I think that the reason that women are being blamed is because they are seen as weaker and easier targets for the hysteria that is starting to be created. In Puritan society, men are generally seen as the ones who never do anything wrong and keep the city/place safe. If the epidemic keeps growing and fear keeps spreading, then the men will start to fight among themselves. Why are women the first to turn against?

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  37. The epidemic of fear and accusations has engulfed the town. No one really thinks that the witch trials are fair, and they are a source of gossip for the sleepy town. However, only Proctor really sees it as an epidemic, partly because he knows that Abby is lying and partly because his wife is in danger. In all, the entire town has been swept up in mob mentalities and hysteria. Should this society have so much credulity and be so quick to blame?

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  38. @ Olivia: Social classes has been a part of society forever and i think it always will be. It is a way to divide a community, for better or worse. What do you think classes are based on? How does society determine upper middle and lower?

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  39. As the epidemic has reached new highs, so has the dishonesty within the typically honest, straight-laced community of Salem. I believe the epidemic will become even more far reaching as the plot progresses, especially as the Proctor's relationship becomes more and more full of jealousy and deceit. What effect will Elizabeth's jealousy of Abigail have on the plot?

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  40. The epidemic has reached critical mass. At this point, the boy who cried wolf has become the boy who cried war.

    The seemingly-simple accusations of a few girls has caught on to the rest of the village. Now almost everyone in the village is accusing others of witchcraft simply because they do not like them or had done them wrong. It's sad that their way of dealing with opposition is to kill them.

    Why, then, do the people of this village see hanging as a viable way to deal with their problems?

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  41. Garrett- It will most likely burn out when the town feels guilty of what they have done. Does this remind you of any of the other short stories we have read?

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  42. @Mrs. Comp the way they are forced to falsely admit says nothing about the religious code about salvation, but it does say a great deal about the hipocasy of the Puritan culure or at least this particular town. As we progress in the book i've noticed that one of the main motifs in the is book is hipocrasy, and Miller tries hard to get that point across

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  43. I think that this epidemic has spread throughout the town in an uneasily fast pace. It seems now that certain people, such as Mary Warren and Abigail William, hold a special power over the towns people. How do you think the witch hunt affected the "social status" of the town's members in Salem? Who now holds this power?

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  44. Garret- I feel as though this whole situation will take a while to burn out because everyone is taking out years of built up hatred toward the other citizens of Salem. It will take a little while for the hate accumulated over time to come out completely, and until that point I think the witch hunts will continue. Is there any way to stop this whole situation abruptly and before it gets any more out of hand?

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  45. Class- Why would these women admit to being witches if it meant spending the rest of their life in prison? Death is inevitable and they would rather lie to put if off than face it and remain honest. Why would they do this? Isn't lying a sin and therefore although they may have lived longer wouldn't they end up in hell?

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  46. What do you see with Proctor's internal conflict? What must he do?

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  47. The epidemic has reached far throughout Salem, mainly due to the fact that good people can be accused by their nemesis, and the accuser can get away with it. Should the judges look more into the situation, for example, Walcott being unable to take care of a pig, or are they too blinded?

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  48. @Lauren: People are quick to judge because they fear that if they wait too long, they will find out the truth which may or may not support their accusations. People do not want to be made fools of so they make sure someone else is in the spotlight of shame.

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  49. @Vivian- I really think that if Elizabeth did forgive and let go of the things that happened between Proctor and Abby, the tension in her relationship would have been a lot less. But really, lets face the facts, this would most likely never have happened because of the fact cheating on your wife isn't exactly something that should be treated easily. My question, from Proctor's side say, Should Proctor try to defend Elizabeth as much as he can, or should he chill and try not to be a problem? Is defending also a way to get ourselves into trouble?

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  50. @ Vivian: I agree with you. Women are defiantly seen as weaker and an easy target. How would this society be different if women were treated more equal?

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  51. @Clairissa- People are just sitting by and watching these terrible things happen because they don't want those terrible things to happen to them. Everyone in the town is selfish. Abby created this entire scheme just to get rid of Elizabeth Proctor so she could have John to herself. So why is everyone believing Abby?

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  52. Rae- I completely agree that there is a mob mentality withing Salem. However, I'm not sure that you can put them all into this category because John Proctor is debating whether to tell the truth and he is not even a "devoted" Christian. So do the people who are joining the mob feel it is necessary in order to go to Heaven, or to avoid dying?

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  53. @Comp- I would definitely sacrifice my reputation for the good of the whole at whatever costs. I think that it is incredibly crucial for people to stay true to what they believe in and be honest and forthcoming about as many things as possible, even if it makes them look different or even outcasts them from society. How does fear have an impact on the ability for people to speak the truth and do it for the greater good?

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  54. Natalie, I think that the hysteria will burn out when there is nobody left who is in question of being a witch. At this point it is almost out of control because people really have no idea what is going on. When will people finally figure out what is happening around them.

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  55. Olivia- That is a good question. Do you think that they'll ignorantly continue the hangings until all young women in Salem are hung? Or will Abby finally feel the guilt of taking innocent lives and put a stop to it before it reaches that point?

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  56. Victoria- I feel as if Elizabeth needs to forgive Proctor to make progress and maintain the relationship. If they want to remain together, they must recognize each others faults, forgive, and promise to make improvements. I don't think adultery can be skipped over lightly because there will always be a question of trust. Do you think that Elizabeth and Proctor could ever reach the same level of trust they had for each other before?

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  57. Brendan M- I agree with you. It is a little bit ironic that supposedly religious and forgiving people are turning on each other. I think it is significant that Miller doesn't include the actual church in any part of his play, only the pastors and churchgoers. It shows that even though witchcraft is a religious crime, people only used religion as an excuse to accuse people or judge them. If witchcraft is a religious crime, should it be tried in a court, or settled in church?

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  58. @ Jack-you don't think there is religious implication? Is it better to lie to protect oneself? Lying is a sin-as a religious Puritan, doesn't this say something about going to heaven?

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  59. Lauren: I think there is a mob mentality involved with the judging of these people. It went from around 7 people being accused to almost 14 in a matter of a few days. People are realizing that any small grudge they had on someone can become reality, and they can get revenge just by saying a name.
    Class: If someone denies a crime, are they more suspicious of the crime? Why?

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  60. Lauren- People are so quick to judge because usually it brings them out of the light of trouble. If you are the accuser rather then the accused most likely you will not have punishment. This brings us back to the ideas from the ideological statements- Every society needs a scapegoat. Depending on which stance you took, having a scapegoat could be the most important aspect. Are they blaming/judging to save themselves?

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  61. Jonathan- I think it is wrong for people to accuse others to save themselves. They are only saying stuff so they are not accused. It is very selfish and just a way for people to get out their vengeance. Like on page 77 when Proctor says, "Is the accuser always holy now? Were they born this morning as clean as God's fingers? I'll tell you what's walking Salem -vengeance is walking Salem." He knows this because he knows Abigail hates Elizabeth and wants John to herself, so it makes sense that she accused her. How can John prove Elizabeth innocent without admitting he had an affair? Is that possible? How often do people risk themselves for people they love? Is it different today than it was in the past?

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  62. Joe- What better way is there to get rid of your problems than by killing them? The people of Salem believe that once all the "witches" in their town are executed, Salem will go back to the normal community it once was. The problem is, they do not realize that these trials are changing people on the inside. Spouses of the accused become bitter and possibly spiteful. What is going on here will never be forgiven.
    On that note, are there certain things in life that are truly unforgivable?

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  63. Natalie and Garrett - I like where you are going. I think that this epidemic will have to burn out eventually because the town is smaller and not everyone can be hanged. How many innocent lives will be lost before this hysteria burns out? Is it worth it to lose a few lives in the event that many will be saved?

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  64. Vivian D: I think the women are first to turn on each other because they are directly involved. Men aren't being accused of witch craft. If you were a women back in those days, would you wait to be tried for being a witch or would you try to accuse someone in hopes of not being accused yourself?

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  65. Lauren- But the other women that have confessed to being acquainted with the Devil are sitting in prison. What is excusing them from their punishment?

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  66. Lauren C- People are quick to judge because they do not like things outside the norm. They judge because they are scared, or because they do not like things that are different. When you judge someone, what is usually the reason?

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  67. @Olivia. There is such emphasis because of how important we want to be to our society and how we want to affect it as much as we can. To relate it to the Crucible, the girls danced in the forest and then named off all of these women, I believe this shows how they want to have some importance to the society around them and somehow get attention any time they can so they can move up the classes. Also, if that didn't relate to what you were thinking, I interpreted that Parris wanted to make sure he was still up on the totem pole and that this event wasn't going to affect this. I believe this is because he wants to feel important and that he has impact on society which all connects back to how the girls feel. Why do we automatically place blame on some people instead of asking for proof, like Proctor?

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  68. Torri- I agree that in theory these people should just tell the truth so they can live on in Heaven, but if you were offered life in prison or death as a saint, what would you chose if you really were not a devoted Christian and you knew it? Would you not be more afraid of being judged in Heaven for eternity or judged on Earth with more time to live?

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  69. @ Lauren C- I believe that people are quick to judge because they don't want to be judged themselves. If they follow along with what other people are saying then they are less likely to be accused. If they don't go along with it they will become outcasts. If they become outcasts then they are more likely to be accused and with few friends to back them up when they do go to court. What is Salem's need for a scapegoat at this point in time?

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  70. What do you see with the motif of personal vengeance and proof? Logic seems to have walked out the door-what are the root causes for what is happening here? Do you believe these girls who are accusing others?

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  71. I believe fear has driven the epidemic to a new high in Salem. It has reached a point were there are 39 women who have been convicted of witchcraft and more are still being called upon. Salem officials have even gone so far to let outsiders come in to help them in the court. Mr. Hale seems to be second guessing himself for coming to Salem and can no longer calm down what he has created. Proctor seems to be the only one concerned for the truth and for proof of things that people say have occurred. Did you notice that only women are being called out for witchcraft? What do you think this shows about the value of women in Puritan culture and in Salem?

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  72. @ Natalie: One question i had for this discussion was how important trust is to a relationship. Can trust be re-earned?

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  73. Vivian, I also think your follow up question is interesting. I think that women are the first to be blamed for a few reasons. One they seen as weak in this society. They did not have any respect as a whole. Additionally, I do not think that the women will start to blame the men because they are afraid of the repercussions the men could take if they are angered. That being said, do you think that a man in this culture would offer up his life in order to save his wife. For example, do you think John Proctor will allow his wife to die for his mistake?

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  74. Hannah - Do you think more people would die if the men were targeted? Would they act the same as women? I think men would act on their feelings and more people would be hurt; however, they would be less likely to say the names of others.

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  75. Torri: I think you need to sympathize with them to understand. Being accused of something like witchcraft and murder when you're an innocent person can be really scary, especially if you have a group of men coming after you to take you to jail. They admitted to it out of the pressure. Historically, there were very nasty interrogation methods and "tests" used to prove that you were a witch. Admitting to it upfront could save the women a lot of suffering over all.

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  76. Natalie- I don't think that the same level of trust they had for each other before could be restored. It could grow though if John puts his life before Elizabeth to save her in the trials. Should John confess lechery if it will stop Abigail's crazy scheme?

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  77. @Olivia- I think that each person in the novel who could possibly be part of the mob is already fearful of their afterlife and what is going to happen to them. As we saw in the sermon, if you are destined to go to hell, there is no way to get out of it and the burning flames are waiting for you. The puritans whole-heartedly believed in this and were pretty much willing to do whatever they thought necessary in order to clean their slate in front of God. To further address your question, I think people join the mob with a little bit of both intentions in mind. They want to go to Heaven but also do not want to be the weird outcast who is not apart of the mob. We have seen that the outcasts in this society are the ones who become questioned and further accused.

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  78. Lauren: To answer your question to Vivian, I think I would probably end up accusing people. I want to say I wouldn't, but I feel like if I was scared to be hung I might throw in a name. Do you think people's true colors come out when they are afraid?

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  79. @Everyone- Don't you guys think that a lot of what's happening at this point is not only lies but getting revenge on the people you don't like? Even on page 61 Elizabeth says, "There be a thousand names; why does she call mine?... She'd dare not call out such a farmer's wife but there be a monstrous profit in it. She thinks to take my place, John."

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  80. Joe, people always want to find ways of dealing with their problems. Whether it is handled correctly or not, all that matters is that has been handled. People are dealing with their problems and grudges by passing them off to the executioner. So, what is it that drives people to do things that they know are immoral and wrong?

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  81. Emma- I definitely think that Abigail holds the power. As you can see on page 73. Hale comes to the Proctors' house to see to what level their Christianity holds, and he doesn't believe Elizabeth is a witch until Cheever comes and says that Abigail accused her. They then search for proof of that being true and find the doll that Mary Warren made and assume that it is Elizabeth's. Then all assurance Hale had about Mrs. Proctor goes out the window and he thinks she is just as guilty as the others.

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  82. @ Mrs. Comp i think that it give a major insight into these peoples pressures. It is like the saying "The last piece of straw on a camels back" These people have lived the best lives possible all their life will no emotional out. There is no way to get out the bad feelings in their soceity. I think that what happened was not in any way a refection of religion, but rather a radical insight into the pent up pressure of this society

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  83. Vivian, the number of lives lost will depend on how long it takes for the people to realize what they are doing is wrong. How long will it take considering their blinded judgment on the matter?

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  84. Amanda:
    My guess is that if these girls continue to keep telling them who have walked with the Devil, and keep giving them information, then they men won't want to put them in jail because they are supplying them with valuable information in order to keep their town "safe from witch craft."

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  85. @Natalie: John and Elizabeth will never have the same level of trust that they shared before the affair. No matter how hard they try to mend their marriage, they cannot erase history. Elizabeth will always remember what Proctor did and she knows that he has the potential to do it again.

    Does Proctor want closure or would he rather the subject of his affair was never mentioned under any context?

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  86. Aubrey- The separation of church and state back then was not established, so settling it in the church probably would have the exact same result as if it was tried in court. This leads to the question of whether or not religion's influence should be allowed in the governments today? If there should be religion in government to what extent should it be allowed?

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  87. @Rae I think that people are not standing up for themselves because it makes others suspicious of them. For example, on page 70, when Elizabeth questions the witch hunt by saying, " I cannot think the Devil may own a woman's soul," Reverend Hale quickly accuses her of not believing the stories of the bible. People are fearful of what will happen if they go against the common belief of the town and speak against it. How is fear a common theme in the characters' decisions?

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  88. Comp- Reverend Hale was sitting on the fence over which side of the dispute to side with: the town and the accusations, or Proctor, who says that the accusers are liars. I believe that Hale will stand up for Proctor's cause later on. Proctor says to Hale "You are a coward!" (Miller 79). However, Hale does believe that there is something amiss with the devil, although lies and treachery are involved. He says to Proctor: "What I have heard in her favor I will not fear to testify in court." (Miller 78).

    Should Abby consider her moral Puritan upbringing and say that she lied? How has such a moral upbringing not taught her at least some guilty feelings for what she has done?

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  89. But Mark...why does Abby hold the key to all of this? What are her motives? What do you guys see in the girls? Do you believe they are bewitched or is this a way of letting out petty grievances? Who holds the ultimate POWER?

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  90. Hannah, classes are determined by social status in a village like this. While I cannot say that this is always the case for a society, here, the most powerful man is the one with the most connections and allies.

    And this brings up the topic of religion. The man with the most religious piety in the village has the most credibility.
    "God keep you both; let the third child be quickly baptized, and go you without fail each Sunday in to Sabbath prayer..." said Hale, p. 70. Punctuation mistakes aside, he is using Proctor's lack of devotion to the church as grounds to distrust him and his family.

    In this way, even the most wise people are not the most successful. Why do we have a tendency to rally around a figure of power for our righteousness, instead of finding our own morality?

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  91. Hannah- I don't think trust can be re-earned. It's like a plate (Yes I'm using a plate metaphor. Awesome, I know) Once the plate is broken, it can never be fixed. The pieces can be gathered and it can be glued back together, but there are still cracks and it will never be whole and solid again.

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  92. Garret- Reverend Hale is fuel to the fire, no matter what his intentions. Unfortunatley, he is so intent saving Salem from the Devil that he is quick to see it in everyone.
    At what point do human errors, faults, or mistakes turn into "conspiring with the devil"?

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  93. Whitney - That is a good point. Due to John Proctor's recent attempts to please Elizabeth because he knew what he did was wrong, he might try to save her. When it comes down to life or death, are you willing to save someone you love even if it means your death as well? Do you think that our generation is different from the town in the book? When it comes to life and death, aren't all humans the same?

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  94. Savannah- I think people back then risk themselves for their loved ones as we do today. On page 70 Giles and Francis Nurse enter Proctor's house and complain to Hale about the trial, since their wives have been abducted. Is it out of Proctor's, Giles', and Francis' reach to get their wives back, or is the trial already too out of hand?

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  95. Whitney- I don't think John will let his wife die for his mistake because he feels so guilty and he couldn't live with himself if she was punished for a sin that isn't hers. Why did Elizabeth go so willingly with Cheever?

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  96. @Vivian: I agree but, I also think the men might be targeted equally. The men would be another scapegoat

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  97. @Comp- I think that Proctor's guilt is his biggest internal conflict. Right now, he is angry with himself and the situation that he has wedged himself into. However, I think that Abigail will always haunt his thoughts and he will never be able to give all his attention back to Elizabeth. Therefore, he must re-fall in love again with Elizabeth or abandon the relationship all together. Based on the novel, do you think he still has feelings for Abigail?

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  98. @Garrett- The town of Salem is going through something that not many people could realize as a deathly trap for many. To where they are headed, it seems like it will take some extremities before the "clueless" people of Salem start to take charge of their haphazard (oh ya) actions.

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  99. Savannah C:
    I don't think true colors come out when you're scared. In a time of fear, so many people don't know what to do or how to handle situations. The worst in many people can come out, but everyone has "the worst" in them. I don't think the worst in people are peoples true colors. Do you think everyone has "a worst" in them somewhere?

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  100. Jack- I would disagree that these people have lived the best possible lives. They have actually lived very bad lives in the eyes of God, they are just good at hiding that from the rest of the world. These people are not truly holy, they are just darn good at keeping secrets. Do the Salem-ites care more about there community's opinions of God's?

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  101. Savannah-Yes, I do think you truly see who people are when they are afraid of when they fear something. Fear makes people do things in order to save themselves. Therefore, you can see who the selfish and greedy people are in the community. You can tell who is willing to risk others lives in order to save themselves. CLASS: What do you think would happen if every woman in Salem admitted to witch craft that way there was no one left to blame and none of them would be hanged because they all admitted to it?

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  102. Does fear test peoples' character? For example, all theses upstanding women are accusing each other of witchcraft. They seem to be going against the Bible and all religious ideas. When hysteria is created and people are unknowing, do they behave differently? Does their fake personality leave and their true opinions come out? If so, should people keep fake and upstanding attitudes all the time, so they appear to everyone how they want to appear? Or should people not worry how they appear to others? How does this relate to high school society? How does it relate to society beyond high school,and in the real world?

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  103. Comp-On page 77 where Proctor says ," I'll tell you what's walking Salem- vengeance is walking Salem. We are what we always were in Salem, but now the little crazy children are jangling the keys of the kingdom, and common vengeance writes the las! This warrant's vengeance! I'll not give my wife to vengeance" stood out to me. Under it I have vengeance being a possible motif. I people people are trying to cover themselves up by blaming others before they are blamed. The girls are just scared for themselves and using vengeance to try to hid it. How long do you think this use of vengeance will last? Who will stop it?

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  104. Comp: I think the root causes for the hunt is superstition and responsibility. Superstition because the town of Salem readily believes in witchcraft, because it is mentioned in the Bible. Responsibility because when Abby and Betty were caught in the woods, they didn't want to take the blame for it, so they placed it on someone else.
    Should you always take responsibility for your actions?

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  105. Does Abigail hold the power? or are the citizens of salem allowing her the power becasue of emotional outlet it offers? Even if not convicted people can express their dislike by mentioning or accusing others, for many it isn't hysteria but rather a chance to even the odds. For example, When Giles is speaking of his wife and the pig she sold that died and the man who claimed that ever since that day he could not keep a pig alive

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  106. Amanda, I agree that John probably won't let Elizabeth die for him. But how will Abigail react to his decision to sacrifice himself?

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  107. Olivia- You bring up an interesting point. All of the town wouldn't honestly believe in their religion though, if what you say is true. If they believed whole-heartedly in their bible and the teachings of the church they wouldn't have to worry about not being devoted and sent to hell. Does anyone in their society hold fast to the morals and regulations set forward by the church?

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  108. Jared- That is a good point. I agree there will always be build up resentment no matter how things change. Do you think it would be worth staying in that relationship, or should Elizabeth try to find real trust somewhere else?

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  109. @ Hannah B- Trust can be re-earned. All people make mistakes, most of the time people learn from them and don't repeat them. When a person messes up, they can see their wrong and fix it. Trust doesn't grow back in a day, but over time it can be repaired. Trust is vital to a relationship. Right now John and Elizabeth don't trust each other as much as they used to. Their relationship is shaky at the moment. If John works hard to rebuild trust and his relationship, then John and Elizabeth will be much better off. Should Elizabeth be able to count on John to help her out of this mess or should she still not trust him at this point?

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  110. Chad:
    In Salem, the government being dictated by religion has led to the witch trials. Without a system of checks and balances to keep the two separate, hysteria reins and mob mentalities form and fester.

    What balance between faith and skepticism should there be in a society?

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  111. Mark- I feel like fear and revenge is what is driving this whole situation. If not for fear of being caught summoning spirits in the forest, Abigail would not have charged Tituba with witchcraft in the first place. Fear then opened a door that revenge could find its way into the trials. The fact that they are taking so little evidence to convict someone also makes it easy for someone just to go out and say that their enemy is a witch. Is it ever okay to take revenge in the form of lies? Is revenge even alright in the first place?

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  112. @Comp- You know, I really can't tell at this point. CLASS - Is this whole thing all about hatred and grudges, or an actual stirring of spirits and stuff!? (Relate back to comp's question to me)

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  113. Natalie- I don't think that he still has love for Abigail. He is ashamed of what happened before, and seeing her cause this hysteria probably makes him hate her more than love her. Is Abby's ultimate goal to get John Proctor, or exact vengeance on the people she hates?

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  114. Comp- The root of the epidemic is obviously Abby, who is manipulating the situation to get what she wants. Using the panic of witchcraft to her advantage, Abby has claimed that Elizabeth Proctor is a witch to get her out of the picture. Abby has pretended that Elizabeth attempted to murder her, and with Elizabeth gone, Abby believes John will be all hers. But what is Betty's motive? Why is she going along with it?

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  115. Hannah- I think social classes are determined by your family history. Since the Putnam's have a wealthy family history they can charge Rebecca Nurse of murder for her seven children that died at birth, even though it seems pretty impossible. Are the higher social classes influencing the trial?

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  116. To Emma's comment: I believe that the social status of people in Salem has always played a role in these events. As Proctor says on page 77, “I'll tell you what's walking Salem-vengeance is walking Salem.” From the beginning it has become evident to me that people have used this witch hunt to seek out their own personal agendas. Many people have much to gain or much to lose in the witch trials of Salem. The question is: Do people have the right to bring personal vendettas into different aspects of their life to achieve personal gain?

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  117. Lauren: I think that is a good point. I was thinking that maybe people show what they truly think when they are scared. But I like idea of the "worst" in people. Maybe it's not the true character of a person that comes out, but it is the worst side of them that does. Do you think people should prevent this form coming out when they are scared? Or should it be accepted?

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  118. Who will be the voice of reason? Hale says, "Man, we must look to cause proportionate. Think on cause man, and let you help me to discover it...how do you see Rev. Hale's role in this chaos? He ultimately started the perpetuation of hysteria and the charging of others.

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  119. Chad- I don't think that any form of religion should be allowed in the government. If they put Methodism into it, then the Catholics will be wondering why their religion hasn't been made part of the government. It is a line that really should not be crossed because there are so many different ideals in all the different religions. And some of these ideals are not concrete. Most religions are up to many different interpretations. There can be no differences in interpretation of the law. If there is, all hell breaks loose.
    Why are many of the formal governments in the time period of The Crucible based on religion?

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  120. Hannah B:
    I had a very similar question...."When you make a mistake, how easily should it be forgiven?" I think that trust can be re-earned. Depending on the situation, person, etc. trust can be harder or easier to earn back.

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  121. @Amanda C- I think that you bring up an interesting point about why Elizabeth went so willingly with Cheever. I think maybe she gave herself so easily because she wanted to test John and see if he would stand up for her and fight. He did probably, like you said, because he felt so much guilt and felt like he owed it to her. Do you think his fight was genuine? Or was he just standing up for her because he felt badly?

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  122. @ class, if someone believes wholeheartedly in something does that mean they live that particular religion or ideal all the time?

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  123. @Maria- Even if Abby wanted to follow her Puritan tendencies, it would not be as simple as saying she lied. With the amount of blood on her hands she would have to deal with furious families and the reputation the would scar her forever. Abby does not seem like she wants that so she is better off continuing to lie, in her mind.

    At what point though, will Abby realize that what she is doing will not get her everlasting attention or John Proctor? When Elizabeth is dead? When Proctor is dead? When she herself is dead?

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  124. @ Rheana Thats a good point but do you think there will always be resentment even if it decreases over time?

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  125. Jonathan - In your question to Comp, I think that we should always take responsibility for our actions. Just because we should, doesn't mean that most people do. When Abby and Betty were found in the woods, they didn't take the blame because they knew the results. That is the reason most people don't own up to their actions. When it comes down to your life or others, we are all the same. Why do some people just accept their fate, while others will try over and over to save themselves?

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  126. @Dan- I think what drives people to do things that they know are immoral and wrong is fear. Fear of judgment, accusations and fear of consequences. The importance of reputation to the people in this novel is extraordinary and it is shown to the reader that they will do anything to uphold their reputation even if that means doing something incredibly unjust such as creating false accusations such as Abigail does. She is also driven by selfishness and greed for John Proctor. On page 74 it says, "And demandin' of her how she come to be stabbed, she testify it were your wife's familiar spirit pushed it in." With the background knowledge of Abby and John's relationship, one can deduce that Abby is falsely accusing Goody Proctor in order to get exactly what she wants- John Proctor. John Proctor is clearly a very conflicted character because he wants to stay faithful to his wife, and I do think that he honestly loves her, but his desire for Abigail is relevant throughout the first two acts. What does his internal conflict represent and what do you think will come of it?

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  127. Savannah:
    I don't think there is a way to prevent this. Some people are good at handling bad situations, but sometimes it is uncontrollable.

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  128. @Jack- Really, I don't think that there are many people in history who have stuck to their religion wholeheartedly their ENTIRE life. Trust me, you get sidetrack and eventually realize your on the wrong side of the road. I feel like this is part of what's happening in Salem.

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  129. Mrs. Comp: I believe that the girls are doing accusing people because it makes them feel powerful. Abigail and her friends were still considered children, but they were at the age where they wanted to be seen as something more. On page 53, Miller writes, "When Abigail walks through they part like the sea." Abigail has gained status and respect in the Puritan community, and all she had to do was point her fingers and scream, "Witchcraft!" The girls have power that they never had before, and none of them can bear to lose it, no matter how many they hurt.
    Are people in power easier to believe than outcasts or lower class people? Why or why not?

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  130. Comp- I believe the root of all of these problems, witch hunts, lies, deceit, adultery is caused from fear and curiosity. They are all fearful of going to Hell and being judged by not only there fellow townsmen, but also God. This may drive them to think that those two opinions are one in the same. Curiosity should not be an issue because most of the actions they take have given consequences, like going to Hell, but it is human nature to wonder. It is like little kids who know not to touch the stove when it is on, but do it anyway. It is a basic need to experience it for ourselves.

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  131. How can Abby look so innocent in the court-Proctor says, "Is the accuser always holy now?" What hypocrisy exists in the court-what does this say about the abuse of power and how power structures manifest?

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  132. Lauren- How easily do you think trust will be re-earned in this situation? What will John have to do to possibly save his marriage?

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  133. Maria- I don't feel as though it is even possible to keep a balance between faith and skepticism in a society. People who hold faith aren't skeptics, so there is no in between and I think it is impossible to achieve a balance. Can our faith lead us too far, to the point of murder or something equally horrible?

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  134. Jonathan- I think you should always take responsibility for your actions. This applies to John Proctor because if he doesn't take responsibility for his actions, then his wife may pay the price and die. Do you think John will confess of his sins? If he does, how bad will his consequences be in the eyes of his society?

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  135. Chad, I think that revenge is justified if there is truth in the matter of getting it. How does everyone's longing for revenge make this situation a lot messier than it should be?

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  136. Mark- At this point I do not think its either. I think the only reason that people continue to be accused is so they can save themselves. However when they do accuse someone they would most likely pick someone they do not like which would bring us back to grudges. But I do not think they are only condemning more people because they are mad at each other. However, Abigail is one person that does do this, in a different way. She condemns Elizabeth for her own personal vendetta. Therefore, if people find out Abigail is lying should she be punished?

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  137. Mark- I think it is a little bit of both since Tituba and a few others confessed to being associated with the devil. But, Abigail and others have blamed people they hate. Why doesn't everyone get the right to a fair trial, out of generosity and through their religion?

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  138. @Jack- Abigail obviously has the whole town wrapped around her finger. She has twisted their minds with fear and is playing them against each other.

    Would this witch hunt still continue if Abigail wasn't leading it?

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  139. Dan, I am baffled by the same question. These people know what they're doing is wrong. It brings me to wonder whether they are killing these people because they don't like them or if they are just caught in the momentum and don't want to be left behind (or are just crazy). But one cannot deny that there is a certain sense of momentum to this hysteria in the book.

    However, what gets me is that the people of Salem are taking lying as a worse sin than actually being a witch. If a witch confesses, they go to jail. If one refuses to confess, and doubt still remains about their innocence, they are hanged just in case. Why is this?

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  140. Jack: I don't think believing in something means you follow it ALL the time. If you believe in kindness to others, and then someone beats you up, very few people will just walk away and not feel any anger towards that person, yet they still believe in kindness.

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  141. Alyssa:
    I do think that we place blame on people without looking at the facts in depth, like the doll as evidence. In a situation of hysteria like this one, everyone looks for scapegoats. Unfortunately, many people are chosen as scapegoats because they are social outcasts or there are petty disagreements of some sort.

    Why can they not just forgive and forget? Wouldn't life be so much easier? Is the reason for lack of reconciliation human nature or just being stubborn?

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  142. Keep thinking about messages inherent and what reoccuring motifs show us in the the bigger scheme of things.

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  143. Jack: I think it depends on how you look at it. People make mistakes. And sometimes those mistakes are things a religion does not permit. This could be seen as not following the religion or it could be seen as something to learn and grow from and seek help from whatever they believe in. How do you think the people in Salem view mistakes? How does society today view mistakes?

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  144. Jack - No. Some people try to and most people can; however, it depends on what it is you believe in. If the topic is religion, then most people stay true to it. If i believe that there is truth to any matter(ideological statement), I don't go around questioning everything that anyone ever tells me. The severity or importance of what you believe in relates to how you live by it. DO you think everyone should live by what they believe in?

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  145. Is it significant that Proctor being an honest, good man is the character who possesses the fatal flaw that ultimately begins the conflict? Who is the scapegoat in this society?

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  146. To Class: Do you guys think that anyone who doesn't live in Salem has the right to pass judgment in this case such as the visiting court officials and Hale? In other words: Do people who do not live in the place where a situation is occurring have a right to have authority in the outcome of that situation?

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  147. @ Hannah B- It will always be in the back of peoples minds, but sometimes when people mess up it is the best way to learn never do it again.When a kid picks up a bee and gets stung, he will never do it again. I think that people will always remember what wrong people did, they won't be able to hold it against them forever. What do you think?

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  148. Jack- Thats just like the ideological statement that states, If you are religious, you should abide by your religion at all times, following its exact word. I think that standing by it at all the times is a very broad statement. I think it depends on what perception is all the time. The Puritans are suppose to follow their religion exactly but they follow it in a more social sense. Their peers might look to them as religious,but they might not truly be. Do you think if you are religious you should have to follow it exactly?

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  149. Why don't we ever want take the blame? Why can't we just admit to everything we do? Wouldn't that clear a WHOLE bunch of things up pretty fast?

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  150. Mrs. Comp, I think that Proctor is the ultimate source of reason because he is constantly looking for the proof. Fact is something that can not be manipulated such as gossip or even fear and he is the only one who seeks it. I find it ironic though because he sees the hypocrisy in so many others but he himself is one of the greatest hypocrites considering his affair. On 73 he asks " on what proof, what proof?" this is just one example of the many times he asked for it. Why do the other members of society lack a value for proof unlike him?

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